lol great photo…. “keep it simple” is good advice, don’t turn authors into cpas
Good discussion and a lot of valid points made.
However as a top buyer who’s spent thousands on items already, with the current system in place (lifetime updates + support were how the marketplace has worked / what I paid for when I originally bought under the current business), how does that impact all us current buyers?
When we bought, it was with what the observation of what we’re getting for our money, which is unlimited updates/support, is what I paid for. You could use a new model for New purchases made After the new support model is in place…
...but for all of us who’ve been spending a fortune on buying themes/plugins with the current model, Envato is legally obligated to honor the terms that were in place at time of sale. So you need to grandfather in the terms of a) ORIGINAL pre-change in support plan TOS/sales that were made, vs b) NEW Buyers who purchase after the new support/update plan is rolled out.
It’s like in licensing, if you sold something to someone under one royalty-free/usage license that customers bought from in 2013, that’s what counts in court/ACCC (the license that the item was sold under), even if you subsequently choose to change/modify licenses or business model years later.
Part of why I bought so much here is the support/update model that is in place at time of purchase. Even if it wasn’t listed in the TOS that updates/support is included, that was the “typical selling model/purchase model in effect at time of purchase” (to use ACCC/FTC compliant wording), based on typical usage at envato. Typicality of how buyer/seller relationships operated at ORIGINAL time of purchase is what’s binding, whether or not specified in legal tos.
So my question is of course, where would new support/update plans leave us buyers who bought with understanding we purchased unlimited updates/support since that was in place at time of purchase? You can’t sell it with unlimited updates one year, then change/reduce support terms post-purchase, as that may create legal/ACCC/court action claims due to false/deceptive change-in-terms advsertising. I bought so much because of the observation that I get unlimited updates/support, so that needs to be honored moving forward. For purchases made after any new company policy, then those terms would be in effect.
But for all my 1,000+ purchases I made up til now, I expect I will continue to get updates/support, since that was how the market place has always worked here. I’m sure most buyers would agree. I wouldn’t have spent thousands of dollars here if you had a paid-upgrade/paid support model in place. If you decide to change your business model to charge for support and/or updates, that goes into effect for New purchases under new TOS…but how about all the grandfathered/earlier/current buyers? Where do we stand?
good points… the main thing we can probably all agree on is you authors Do need to be protected from moron customers who send in 10+ support tickets a month for different things that go beyond what’s provided… as a buyer I want you authors to have time to keep creating great products I can buy, not answering the 15th ticket from a time-leech customer.
it’s more, what’s fair at least from a minimal/reasonable support standpoint, that makes for a happy middle ground..
hey digitalscience, i bought some of your products (flashden?) from the early days…and never sent in a support ticket, lol – great content, thanks
btw only things like codecanyon and TF should require any support, I think… right? no support at All should be needed for activeden, videohive, AJ or graphicriver content, I’d think. I mean aep & fla files, wav, psd, mp3, jpg, mov, bmp shouldn’t need support. just wp themes and plugins since they often don’t play well together.
in 6 years i’ve personally bought over 1,600 things here and asked for support for less than 18 items, total (almost all wp themes/plugins w/bugs, or minor css mods needed for appearance). being a good high-spending low-maintenance customer is good for everyone i think
btw BRIGHT IDEA: Blacklist your pita customers. In my business I’ve blacklisted nearly 200 customers in 15 years, of thousands, in my 1SC merchant account, because there’s always a few a-holes you’d rather not do business with (serial refunders, time leeches, pirates and morons who don’t RTFM/read directions) top the list. You’re better off without the tiny <5% morons who leech your time, it ends up costing you big-picture, it’s good to ‘throw the drunks out of the bar’ w/blacklist bouncer. So you can focus on the 95%+ of good nice normal customers. Identify and blacklist/ban the tiny few jerks, is what I do.
in my business I’ve personally answered over 3100 support tickets myself and hundreds of emails in just the last few years alone, that’s a cost of doing business…long hours, but satisfied customers come back and buy more, knowing they’ll be supported (within reason) post-purchase.
it could turn into an endless debate, it comes down to what’s fair for both sides… some support for non-working bugs/fixes is bare-minimum at the least, it’s debatable how much support is fair and reasonable..
I’m glad envato did a survey, I’ve been recommending that for years; the main thing is to make decisions based on customer survey data, the facts (even if you disagree with them; customer expectations are important, to retain and keep customers).
example: I did a customer survey several weeks ago, got valuable info from hundreds who took it, and then spent over 110 hours extra this past month building out new site features singlehandedly for my sites.. i listen and take action based on (reasonable) customer demands, and it works well
Take a careful look at the buyer expectations:https://speakerdeck.com/envato/buyer-survey-key-results-item-support
also note the level of support your competitors offer; most have forums and no limits on support, especially for wordpress themes, as it’s necessary and expected.
well over half your customers expect solid, timely, one-day turnaround professional support to be included. Particularly if we’re paying way up at $60ish for a single WP theme for a single-site restricted expensive license like you sell.
If you don’t provide expected reasonable support, we’ll buy elsewhere. At least half of us. There’s no shortage of WP theme sites. I’m a top buyer who’s been here from the early days. Agree you need to control for unreasonable 10-questions-a-month people, but for most of us we may have 5-10 support questions a year max, which is reasonable. Many times when I request support it’s for a bug-fix, which the author makes… we end up bringing problems/bugs to author’s attention, which also need help.
On that survey, note that 78% of TF buyers expect response turnaround within 24 hours…because that’s the service standard your Competitors, most other WP theme sites offer; often with author responses within 2-4 hours. Some authors here are awful with lack of support; I don’t buy if i see slow multi-day response times in the comments/support area. You get paid, you’re expected to support what you sell.
I hear a lot of whining from lazy greedy authors who want to charge for support, or not support what you sell. In today’s competitive marketplace, especially WP themes, you’re expected to support what you’re being paid for. Period. Other buyers feel free to speak up. The thread here seems to have a lot of whiney-lazy authors, let’s hear from the people who pay everyone, us buyers. Google “wordpress themes” and see how well the other marketplaces/themeshops support, with dedicated forums.
Some authors, usually the topsellers (like avada, the7, revslider etc authors), provide great support (thanks!). That’s good, and so they get my repeat business.
P.S. In my own business, I have thousands of customers and reply to All customer service requests within 4-12 hours, I have for the 15 years I’ve been online fulltime, and I am one of the most financially successful and top-reputation people in my industry. I work my a__ off 16-hour days for my customers, because I VALUE my customers. Not whine.
When it comes to support, as Yoda says, “Do, or do not. Do not try. There is no try.”
thanks, I’ll take a look… having random content appearing is good since it encourages repeat returns to the site, like a new featured product, or photo, or quote of day
hi – I’d like to in a very small space (200×150px) on my wp homepage show one of 5 random images…any plugins/b-rotators that can do that?
i think it would be cool to have a different random small image show up (1 of a few I’ve added) whenever a visitor comes to the site
the big b-rotators may be too large footprint, any widget/small size 200×150px max plugin that would work?
thx..u guys rock